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Thread: My mother's admonition

  1. #46
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    Z, we understand each other perfectly! I never experienced racism either...we had to much other kaka going on hahahaahahha...yes, how we shared the story telling of the movies and would have a crowd listening, the ones who couldn't afford to go....

    Another thing, discriptions of a person goes way back to many groups...for instance: the Indians had names like...little horse, face of many clouds, etc..german baloon with the 7 bail cake hahahahahahah




    Quote Originally Posted by zpania View Post
    I know exactly what yu mean Rosey. The best and easiest way we could describe somebody was by some prominent physical feature. Skin tone was the first attempt for description followed by hair , then clothing, then address. It was always done in innocence. But the flip side to that was when someone wanted to insult anotherperson, in most cases they would use those same characteristics but in a derogatory way.


    I remember we often referred to a particular boxer as "21 buss head" because he had 21 stitches from a boxing match he lost.


    i never experienced racism growing up in Belize so i can't speak on it.
    That's not to say it didn't exist. Some members obviously felt it and maybe that's the reason they are sensitive to the mere mention of skin color. I never felt i was better than any other because of my skin tone or color. For me it was all about having fun with any friends available. There was no TV programming then so no one could brag about what they had or saw. There was only one radio station and we all developed our music taste from that.

    When any of us went to the movies we look forward to sharing or hearing about it. And we talked for hours about it, even acting out the scenes entertaining one another. As impressionable youngsters , it was easy for us to memorize whole lines from the movies . We couldn't wait to get home to share and there was always an audience who waited eagerly to hear about it. Life was so good back then.
    Love is a many splendid thing and food run a close second.

  2. #47
    zenflower Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by zpania View Post
    I know exactly what yu mean Rosey. The best and easiest way we could describe somebody was by some prominent physical feature. Skin tone was the first attempt for description followed by hair , then clothing, then address. It was always done in innocence. But the flip side to that was when someone wanted to insult anotherperson, in most cases they would use those same characteristics but in a derogatory way.


    i never experienced racism growing up in Belize so i can't speak on it.
    That's not to say it didn't exist. Some members obviously felt it and maybe that's the reason they are sensitive to the mere mention of skin color.
    I never felt i was better than any other because of my skin tone or color.
    Ok I thought this thing was done and over with, hahaha.... but Im just noticing this so I gotta respond. I understand some Belizeans refer to others by skin color, and really that is not the issue. But you are now twisting this thing around and turning it into something it's not. Im not being sarcastic right now this is real talk, so Im gonna tell you how crazy your above underlined statement sounds.

    You sound a little condescending by scapegoating the real issue regarding editing, and implying that the reason people questioned the color issue in your story is because they/we may have experienced racism so therefore became "sensitive from the mere mention of it", lol... ARE YOU SERIOUS????? All that was said was that it could have been edited out, ... WTF?... and you turned it into "hurt and emotional scars". This is an old Belizean way of thinking that goes back hundreds of years, and most of those types of people in Belize that have their noses up in the air, that still thinks that way, don't look any different for the Mexicans in any inner city neighbors in Los Angeles, and is just another minority as any other.

    If you must know, I've never experienced racism either, so therefore obviously that was not my reason for questioning your statement. I too am a mixed raced exotic looking woman, and most Belizeans have a mixture of different cultures. So for you to sound like you're communicating to a bunch of people beaten down by racial attacks with low self esteems, who just can't seem to understand your higher way of thinking is simply absurd. Sometimes things are just better left unsaid if its not worth saying thats all.

    Carry on....

  3. #48
    scotchbonnet Guest
    Zen, ah di laugh atta your fierceness, gial. I feel like I'm little again and somebody just shout "Hurry, fight bruk out." And ah gane di seek out trouble, just for kicks.
    Zen, your sensitivity is remarkable, though. Are you an artist? You sure sound like one. Your ability to look beyond the surface is pretty amazing. You sure can dissect a subject into layers. You also have that uncanny ability to branch out and reach into the depths of a sentiment. It seems you feel stuff very deeply and can vocalize readily. You should be creating some kind of art, gial.

  4. #49
    scotchbonnet Guest
    As far as I know, everyone on this earth experiences racism of some form or the other. That is my opinion.
    Why? Because racism is just another element of a combination of ignorance and stupidity and cruelty.
    Some people experience it more than others but this becomes a defense mechanism that make these people forever alert to it.
    It is good to be aware of it. I certainly am. I experienced it in Belize, Mexico, parts of Europe, once very badly in Canada and very often in America.
    Being the victim of racism doesn't reflect on you. It wasn't your stupidity showing. But it can/does hurt you. And you learn from it.

  5. #50
    scotchbonnet Guest
    I never experienced racism either..
    Rosy, the minute you were called "German" that made you different. In your case, calling you German balloon was done in a teasing manner and it was a compliment to your voluptuous figure. Many of the young men who found you attractive yelled that phrase at you because they were too shy or silly to approach you. You were too pretty to mess with and you demanded respect.
    But just imagine you were 20 years old in the late 30ies and before 1945 when the war was raging. That's when everything German was hated. The senario changes. If they just called you "balloon with the 7 bile cake" that would have been fine. If they put in the "German" it would have been threatening. You lived in British territory and they would likely have looked at you as a potential enemy. They did send a lot of German Belizeans to a camp in Jamaica.
    So, even though it wasn't considered racist to call you German at that time, there was a touch of racism deeply embeded in it. But that is just my opinion. And gial, a lot of young men had crushes on you. But I guess you already know that.

  6. #51
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    Well look pan dih bile up whey dih tek place nuh.....Z, Z, Z, Z,!!!

    Me wha laugh aftah yunnoh cause I bored dis Sunday Mawning, and I wud love tuh see ah lee WAR ah words pan dih site.
    The Will of God will never take you to where the Grace of God will not PROTECT you...

  7. #52
    scotchbonnet Guest
    Zpania, the best kind of writing are those that produces this kind of response. It makes people think and enter into debates. In that way, you have done your job very well.

    However, there are certain subjects that cannot be just glossed over. Race, religion, phobias, taboos are a few examples. Once you introduce those elements into your story, there better be a reason. Even if the writer just touches on them, to create excitement for example, the writer has to deal with the subject to be fair to the reader. He cannot introduce any of these elements and not explain why he bothered to bring it up. Had you gone on to say a few words like, "not that race mattered" for example, that would have been enough. But just mentioning that there were two different colors became a classification and didn't do a thing for the story except ask the question why did that matter.

    I'll give you an example. I write a story about say a group of male models and how they are dealing with their careers. If I say one of them is strictly Jewish, then I bring in an element that I better explain unless I think that the reader should just apply some kind of Jewish stereotype. If I say he is Jewish but had a chance to cut a commercial eating pork, then I don't have to say anything further. One can imagine the crisis.

    Anyhow, your story was very, very good. The way you showed a group of fit young people getting ready for an athletic event and contrasted that against a one legged lady is very excellent. When their worlds collided, it was done with taste and heart.

    But dude, you have to edit. Edit, edit, edit. Editing is an art unto itself.
    People get paid to edit. A script doctor sometimes makes 7 figures.

    And dude, the customer is always right. It is never the reader's fault, didn't you learn that yet? If you want to hone your craft, you'd better write, write, write. Be greatful for feedback, good or bad. Move on to the next story. We are waiting.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotchbonnet View Post
    Move on to the next story. We are waiting.



    I've never seen a writing dissected and analyzed this way since my English and Composition and Journalism days at SJC Sixth Form. Good One!!! hehehhehehe
    The Will of God will never take you to where the Grace of God will not PROTECT you...

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotchbonnet View Post
    You lived in British territory and they would likely have looked at you as a potential enemy. They did send a lot of German Belizeans to a camp in Jamaica.

    Wow I didn't know this. Interesting.
    Success is Journey... not a Destination

  10. #55
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    Zen - all I'll say is your comments are right on the $$. Very eloquently and explicitly stated.
    Success is Journey... not a Destination

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenflower View Post
    Ok I thought this thing was done and over with, hahaha.... but Im just noticing this so I gotta respond. I understand some Belizeans refer to others by skin color, and really that is not the issue. But you are now twisting this thing around and turning it into something it's not. Im not being sarcastic right now this is real talk, so Im gonna tell you how crazy your above underlined statement sounds.

    You sound a little condescending by scapegoating the real issue regarding editing, and implying that the reason people questioned the color issue in your story is because they/we may have experienced racism so therefore became "sensitive from the mere mention of it", lol... ARE YOU SERIOUS????? [U]All that was said was that it could have been edited out, ... WTF?...

    hahaha... I'm laughing only because i find it so amusing that you are the one who seems to be twisting what I said . I shared with you that i never experienced racism in Belize therefore what i wrote was done innocently. ScotchBonnet questioned me about it I'll cut and paste her comments, please hold on.




    Just have to ask, though Z. What did you mean by this?

    ...What’s more interesting was that Desiree was fair-skinned like me, and had the same quality kinky hair... Desiree was the fastest child on the block beating all of our dark-skinned friends, both girls and boys...

    I think you've just hit the spot where writing is so hard to do. You might have something else totally different in mind than what the words in plain print seem to be saying.
    Nothing a small re-write can't fix.
    Also, remember: Novels aren't written--------they are re-written.
    Every single writer I know has to rewrite. That's the big secret of who gets published and who doesn't.





    I wasn't quite sure what she meant so I asked for her help in rewriting it. She didn't respond immediately and I supposed she wanted me to confirm what she thought i was trying to say before she was willing to offer a rewrite. Bzegirl also questioned it because she thought I was trying to make a point.



    Then you commented making it a color issue. At that point I had to conclude that it hit a sore spot and there is nothing wrong with that. Racism is a shameful and terrible attitude perpetrated on society and and those of us who have felt it know it too well. As a child I didn't experience it as I know it today but according to ScotchBonnets opinion (which I revere) , I must've experienced it because it existed. Maybe I need a therapist help in unlocking such painful memories.
    Enjoy The Silence.



  12. #57
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    below is my request , lol, and ScotchBonnets reply ...much later.







    I am not sure how you interpreted that , but if maybe you read something controversial in it then I guess statements like that should be excluded.
    If you don't mind, i gladly welcome your help in rewriting that portion. Thank you.






    Zpania, the best kind of writing are those that produces this kind of response. It makes people think and enter into debates. In that way, you have done your job very well.

    However, there are certain subjects that cannot be just glossed over. Race, religion, phobias, taboos are a few examples. Once you introduce those elements into your story, there better be a reason. Even if the writer just touches on them, to create excitement for example, the writer has to deal with the subject to be fair to the reader. He cannot introduce any of these elements and not explain why he bothered to bring it up. Had you gone on to say a few words like, "not that race mattered" for example, that would have been enough. But just mentioning that there were two different colors became a classification and didn't do a thing for the story except ask the question why did that matter.

    I'll give you an example. I write a story about say a group of male models and how they are dealing with their careers. If I say one of them is strictly Jewish, then I bring in an element that I better explain unless I think that the reader should just apply some kind of Jewish stereotype. If I say he is Jewish but had a chance to cut a commercial eating pork, then I don't have to say anything further. One can imagine the crisis.
    Enjoy The Silence.



  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenflower View Post

    You sound a little condescending by scapegoating the real issue regarding editing, and implying that the reason people questioned the color issue in your story is because they/we may have experienced racism so therefore became "sensitive from the mere mention of it", lol... ARE YOU SERIOUS????? [U]All that was said was that it could have been edited out







    Show me where ScotchBonnet or any other suggested that piece should have been edited out. I dare ya, c'mon, ya wuss , Show meeeee!












    Enjoy The Silence.



  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotchbonnet View Post
    Zen, ah di laugh atta your fierceness, gial. I feel like I'm little again and somebody just shout "Hurry, fight bruk out." And ah gane di seek out trouble, just for kicks.
    Zen, your sensitivity is remarkable, though. Are you an artist? You sure sound like one. Your ability to look beyond the surface is pretty amazing. You sure can dissect a subject into layers. You also have that uncanny ability to branch out and reach into the depths of a sentiment. It seems you feel stuff very deeply and can vocalize readily. You should be creating some kind of art, gial.




    Wow ScotchBonnet. In all my years on this Board I've never seen someone so eloquently praised . Damn woman, it's the ultimate tribute that any one could wish for and I am so hurt to know you chose to lavish it so proudly on Zenflower. Damn you,Zenflower, I hate you!












    Enjoy The Silence.



  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenflower View Post
    This is an old Belizean way of thinking that goes back hundreds of years, and most of those types of people in Belize that have their noses up in the air, that still thinks that way, don't look any different for the Mexicans in any inner city neighbors in Los Angeles, and is just another minority as any other.


    Wait a minute, are you telling me i am going through life with my nose in the air? Hahahahahaha... What's up with that Mexican comparison?






    Funny you should mention that , I've been mistaken for Mexican when i used to work out in the Hamptons on Long Island. Oooooooh, I got lots of stories of my experience on"The Island." It will bring tears to your eyes. See, I got emotional scars as well , maybe even more.
    Enjoy The Silence.



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